Immigration - A Global Issue
Hungary Reacts
Which groups where are "undesirable" -- how did they get that way.
In any country, does the withholding of education and healthcare resources
add to the problem. By reasonable intent, reinforcing it?
Time for reflectionA. Exploring similarities between cultures, in dealing with targeted immigrant groups.
Roma there, Hispanic and others here, on and on.Magyar Hirlap, a Hungarian daily news entity (see ://www.magyarhirlap.hu/) supports the stern immigration measures against particular immigrants, Romanian gypsies. This mirrors similarly strong measures that the Italian government takes in Italy, see ://www.eurotopics.net/en/search/results/archiv_article/ARTICLE28414-Justified-severity. See FN 3 for the text.
Read that Eurotopics site. We know from other articles there that there are many cases where local Italian populations (enough to be mentioned) become angered if the Roma are supported with government help, and follow up with their own reprisals against gypsies.
B. Examine and compare diatribes. Concepts recur.
The United States
1. Bill O'Reilly. Bill O'Reilly at ://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,156319,00.html, expresses sympathy with Italy's tough immigration policy.
2. Lou Dobbs. Lou Dobbs added to the stereotype of undesirables, here undocumented Mexican immigrants, by combining the term with "aliens" and "criminal.' Undocumented immigrants become illegal aliens, criminal elements for having crossed an open border. see http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2008/03/05/immigration_and_crime/.
See FN 4
3. Rush Limbaugh. Criminal illegal immigrants comes out. Do a search, watch the videos.l
C. These are commonalities:
1. Immigrants
- inundate the country with vagrants with neither papers nor money,
- fail to follow even rudimentary standards of conduct,
- live in urban and rural clusters,
- are shabby and create piles of refuse and dirt,
- take jobs from the majority ethnic group,
- get free social services at the expense of the majority,
- bring in more immigrants,
- commit crimes - crimes of a rapidly escalating gravity.
Put an end to this ridiculous and disgraceful state of affairs, punish illegal immigrants, and deport them. Opposition to such measures is not normal, liberal people who oppose these measures are crazy.
C. Issues:
When does a program regarding reasonable immigration issues become a virtual pogrom FN 1. Not killing, but killing the spirit, the humanity of a group, reaction by mass deportion to where.
Are we looking at a global crisis in human population movements, an issue confronting nations anywhere.
D. Role of Memes in a national consciousness.
Has a "meme" spread, FN 2, that time's up for immigration from underdeveloped countries and for groups long targeted, to the developed countries. These targeted groups used to be - here - the Irish, others who came in huge numbers in the 19th Century. Now assimilated, as physically similar to mainstream, did ok economically. The Irish. Doing not so well: Gypsies, Roma. Doing well here: Jews. Doing middling: Hispanics.
As to all, another meme at one time: that "bad" immigrant behavior when it occurs, if it occurs, reflects the immigrant's inferiority, the immigrant's culture's unworthiness, not his background experiences, lessons learned, etc.
E. Who will try out a global Theory:
Is there any chance that universal basic sustenance - food, clothing, shelter, jobs, dignity-fostering policies, could change the meme.
We may find it hard to even give it a chance.
We predict that the Hungarians and Italians, with a longer history of animosity to gypsies, will continue to find it more difficult to change the national "meme" about gypsies. Some of us here are trying to educate ourselves on the depth of the cultural divide. See Gypsies, Roma, Romani.
We have hopes, however, that the US, with its far shorter history of animosity to undocumented hispanics, will find it somewhat less difficult to accept forms of guest worker programs instead of Immediate Invasion of Neighborhoods and Deportation. But that can happen only if memes are kept in check.
Here, issues as to Gypsies and Hispanic immigrants are less entrenched, not a matter of generations, of tradition, of cultural acceptance for centuries, as had been attitudes and memes about blacks. It may be do-able as to gypsies and immigrants, if reasoned voices prevail, and not the inflammatories. See this reasonably hopeful article from the Center for Immigration Studies, at ://www.cis.org/articles/2001/crime/toc.html
That does not address the need for assistance to those groups in education, job skills, sustenance. No other country seems to have answers, either.
Everyday PeopleF. Global Summit.
Hungary: Idea. We are all in same global blue-marble boat. All countries have ordinary people who reasonably will follow a sensible policy - and can be led either way.
Study carefully which way to go.If everybody deports, as you suggest and our people also (some loud ones) are pushing for, where do the people go that will not continue to cause instability on both sides and worse. Take charge in a constructive way. Everybody loves Budapest. Host a global summit on immigration issues, because I can't think of any country that is not dealing with violence in those areas, or that soon will, when immigration across their borders also increase, regardless of the nationality or culture. All beginning immigrants who are unassimilated and distinguishable, are hit upon, sometimes to the death. Is that right? And, is that right?
Please wait until after our national elections. Thank you.
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FN 1 Pogrom. "An organized massacre of helpless people," see http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/pogrom. Read about one at ://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Holocaust/Kielce.html
FN 2 Memes. See Joy of Equivocating, Memes.
FN 3 Here is the original excerpt, needed here as fair use for purposes of comparing the version above, and from ://www.eurotopics.net/en/search/results/archiv_article/ARTICLE28414-Justified-severity
QUOTE ARTICLE - The conservative daily Magyar HÃrlap expresses sympathy with Italy's tough immigration policy: "What are we talking about here? We are talking about the fact that Italy has been inundated with Romanian gypsies. They have neither papers nor money. What is worse is their failure to follow even the most rudimentary standards of conduct. They live in camp settlements on city outskirts. They relieve themselves on the street and create piles of refuse and dirt. They beg and pester Italians. And of course, they also commit crimes - crimes of a rapidly escalating gravity. The Italians reached the end of their tether when a Romanian gypsy killed the wife of an Italian officer. ... Berlusconi and his conservative government have now decided to put an end to this ridiculous and disgraceful state of affairs. In addition to punishment for illegal immigrants, in future Romanian gypsies are also to be deported. Any normal person would support these measures. The problem is that our liberal world is full of crazy people. So now we are witnessing how liberal defenders of rights and commentators unleash an indignant storm of protest against the Italian government. And of course, Berlusconi is the bad guy and the 'populist'." UNQUOTE ARTICLE
FN 4Why not focus on American gypsies? The group subject here is not gypsy for purposes of this discussion, see ://www.americangypsy.com/the_film/full_description.html,because they try to stay under the radar, and have not been in the news recently as a focus criminal element overall. But we are confident that when the cultures clash there as well, the language and response is the same.
Why not Native Americans? Their situation also is not a current news focus. And we have a guilt relationship here, and don't like to look at what we did. They are discriminated against as are immigrants (note some have found a mega-niche in gambling resorts on their reservations). They were here first and cruelly dealt with by us. We created reasons to slaughter them, by touting our "divine right" by superiority and mission, good heavens, to take land and property. We made our own justification. We let ourselves be sold, and now don't know what to do. Like Iraq? And in our making up our own justification, the Native American situation is like the Gypsies and Jews and Hispanic immigrants - not anything inherent in them, but we impose, they react over time, traits evolve both sides, and the meme runs on. We can't cover all groups in one post. Come back for that one.Why not Asian undocumented immigrants? Not the current news focus, we see. This group enters with somewhat more of a potential support system of entrepreneurs and others, bringing-in, finding housing, initial job, not attracting attention except by numbers, but problems there are many and increasing, see ://www.altrue.net/altruesite/files/alc/pdf/reporter%20final%20PDF.pdf.
Our information relies on Eurotopics' translations, from the Magyar Hirlap. Our interest is in whether the immigration situation in Hungary is like our own. Do media and other leaders lead diatribes against the undesirables, and rev up the majority against the immigrants.
